Tony and Val Albrow
95th BOMB GROUP
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
2004 REUNION WASHINGTON, D.C.
JM: This is Janie McKnight with the 95th Bomb Group Association and tonight I’m here with Tony Albrow. Tony, for the record , would you state your name, today’s date, and where we are.
TA: Tony Albrow, Washington, D.C., September 11th, 2004.
JM: Now will you tell us why you’re at this reunion, and what your association with the 95th Bomb Group is.
TA: Well, because we’re slowly restoring the hospital so it is a museum. A recognition for what they done, really.
JM: Can you tell us how you got involved with the hospital?
TA: Well I worked for the farmer who owned the hospital for ten or fifteen years. Then he give the chance of buying the site, which we done. And sort of prompted the interest. And we’ve been restoring ever since.
JM: And how much land goes with this?
TA: Almost a 3 acre site. There’s a lot of buildings, which we’ve, I don’t know, half finished, I suppose, restoring?
JM: How many buildings are there?
TA: Well all joined together, really. But there’s six roughly, yeah. The ambulance shed is finished, with the ambulance inside.
JM: Well start at the beginning and tell us about the restoration process.
TA: We were only going to do a few rooms to start with, but it got a bit out of hand, and we just carried on (laughter).
JM: When did you start?
TA: Five years ago, yeah, roughly. When we bought the site.
JM: What room did you start with?
TA: Well, I guess it was one of the Doctor’s rooms, but not really sure what they all are. We know where the dentist room is, and the main wards and things like that – the surgery. But there’s 10 or 15 other rooms which don’t really know what the uses were. But, you know, we’re working on them and they’ve got displays in.
JM: And what kind of artifacts do you have in these…
TA: Well a lot of it has been donated – some by Americans, some English, some local people, some things we’ve bought…all related to wartime, really. Not just related to the hospital. There’s a lot of medical things. Whatever turns up, really, we put on show. Just bought the new Contrails, and when we go to the Hanger Dance - tomorrow night is it? – we’re going to try to get all the veterans to sign it so we can put that on display as well.
JM: So tell me about the restoration process. Do you find other people to help you?
TA: No, we’ve just used local builders, really, and paid them to do it. And I’ve done a lot. That’s very difficult to get to do it in the right style, like the ‘40’s as it was. We’ve made sure _____________ fittings as they were. There’s nothing modern been put in. All traditional materials – what they should be. Colors, decorations is as it was, as close as we can get with the faded colors that were in there.
JM: Did you have photographs?
TA: A lot of the veterans have brought us photographs to go on. Of course they’re black and white. But, you can get the layout of the site, which is handy. And you move things, and you find old little flakes of paint and things to match colors. So we’ve got it as original as we can, as much as we know.
VA: (Tony’s wife, Val) And you’ve found a lot of things up at the farm, haven’t you.
TA: Oh yeah, and then the local farm. They took stretches out and things and used them as shelves. They took seats out of the air raid shelter and used them as paths, concrete paths. So we’ve retrieved all them and gotten back in place. But we had to buy the farmer paving slabs to replace them and things like that (chuckling). Make him new shelves.
JM: How many rooms are there?
TA: Well, just a rough count – 18. Might be 16. The main ward we haven’t restored. We use it as a workshop, because we have to earn a living. (laughter) But the rest is all museum – the whole _________ really.
JM: Who comes to see? I mean, do you have local people that come?
TA: Yeah. We get passing tourists. We get school groups – come and do projects, because it’s on the national curriculum. Individual students come and do a project on the site. Get a lot of Americans. We’ve had bus, organized tours from hotels. Get quite a few visitors. We live on site, so we’re open 24 hours a day, really. People turn up, we just let them in.
JM: And you two are the staff.
TA: We’re the staff. We’re the restoration and the staff. (Laughing) We’re trying to register as a charity. We’ve just filled all the forms in, which are very long winded. They’ve gone off to the Charities Commission. And then maybe we can apply for a grant or something. But being a private individual, you can’t. I can’t really carry on funding it myself.
VA: It’s an ongoing thing.
TA: It needs ongoing maintenance. They weren’t built to last, were they. Single brick. We’ve got the decorators in this week while we’re away, doing all the outside before the winter.
VA: Family
TA: Well, family, yeah.
JM: So what are they doing?
TA: They’re repairing and painting the outside to waterproof before the winter, because we get so many damp patches, which destroys what you’ve done inside. It’s a continuous battle, because they’re very cheaply put up 60 years ago.
JM: So have you got much feedback from visitors, or from the school children?
TA: Yes, we do. They all seem pleased with what they see.
VA: They will say the atmosphere – they ___________ the atmosphere.
TA: We haven’t spoiled the atmosphere. It hasn’t been modernized, if you know what I mean. Tried to keep it as it should be. All the ____________ and original ___________ as they were.
JM: Also here today is Val, who is Tony’s wife and working partner (laughter)
VA: I’m the one who has to show the visitor’s around while he’s away ____________ of the day.
JM: So Val, let me just move this microphone over for a minute. And maybe you can tell us what you tell some of these visitors. Take us on a virtual tour.
VA: I tell what Tony’s just told you. They all like to know how we started. They’re amazed that we’re doing it ourselves. Yes, I just tell them the whole story. And they all love it. They all say the atmosphere is good. You know, they’ve been in museums before – never felt the same feeling.
JM: Do you know much of the history of the hospital, like how many people would come in, how many it holds.
TA: Well there’s 22 beds in the main ward. And there’s a ____________ intensive care ward for operation, you know, recovery.
VA: The locals tell us, the old locals, used to tell us that they went into the dentist’s room. They used the dentist, didn’t they. They were allowed to go in.
TA: The locals could use it as a hospital.
VA: One of the old boys that come in, he actually donated a clock that he admitted he’d pinched when he was a boy (laughter) and it had been in his shed ever since. And he’d only just admit that he’d done it. So that’s in the hospital. So that’s got a bit of a story behind it. And he gave us chewing gum papers, didn’t he. And tobacco, with all the tobacco still in it – things that he’d picked up, the Americans had given him. Yeah, he comes up with stories. Several of the old locals, the farm workers, yes. And the actual man who gave us the clock actually worked at the hospital – he worked on the farm when was the hospital was taken back by the farmer. He actually worked inside there with the corn, because the used to keep corn in there and pigs and chickens.
TA: It’s had a lot of uses.
VA: Yeah, it’s got a story behind it. (laugh)
TA: A mushroom farm for 15 years
VA: Before we bought it. And I worked in there when my daughter was small, with the mushrooms. That’s when I first knew the place. Never thought that we’d ever own it, and turn it into a museum. But we have.
JM: So, do you know any stories that the farmer told?
VA: He doesn’t like talking about it. He’s 90, the farmer who owned it before us. He only remembers, he says there’s too many horrible things, like his cows being blown to bits and things like that, so he don’t like... He often talks about the nurses (laughing). He liked to go down and see the nurses. But otherwise, he doesn’t talk too much about it. I don’t think he likes to talk.
TA: Doesn’t tell many stories at all.
VA: And he’ll often say that some of the ground crew used to go up to the farmhouse and spend the night in front of the fire, you know, sleep on the floor and things like that. He’d tell us little stories like that. But he doesn’t really tell us a lot about the hospital, does he? Only about the nurses. As I say, he recalled the nurses (chuckle).
JM: And how about your parents. Do they have any reference?
TA: My father was in the Navy. And he come from Yarmouth, so he didn’t know at all.
JM: OK, so he didn’t live in Horham.
VA: No, and my father didn’t live there either. He didn’t play a part in the war. He worked on a farm.
TA: Reserved occupation they called it, didn’t they.
YA: Yes, that’s it. But he’s given us ration books and different things to put in, you know, the museum.
JM: So what brought you two to Horham?
TA: Well, I was born and bred about 5 miles away – a village called Yaxley. And you come from Norfolk.
VA: Yeah, I’m a Norfolk girl. And of course, when he married me, that’s when I moved.
TA: ??
VA: I’ve only come over the water, over the river as such, you know, from Norfolk to Suffolk. But I didn’t really know much about the area until I married Tony. And then I met an old gentleman used to live right near the hospital. He used to tell me tales. But I was too young then – I listened and I was interested, but, you then, I never really knew, what would happen in the future. If I did, I would have listed more (chuckle).
TA: He knew a lot, didn’t he.
VA: Yes, he did. He lived right beside it, you see. And I think his wife used to do the washing for the Americans, laundry.
JM: So what instigated your buying the property?
TA: Well, I worked for the farmer (?) And the rest of the buildings was used as a mushroom farm, which is also rented from the farmer. The mushroom man retired, and the farmer offered me to buy the site. So we did.
JM: You did with the intention of…
TA: (Laughing) I don’t know what the intention was at the time.
JM: So how did the evolution, how did the idea of restoring it and making it into a museum evolve?
TA: We collected some of the memorabilia. But if we didn’t do anything, it would have fell down. So you got to keep your property up, haven’t you. And it blossomed from there, really.
VA: And then you bought the …
TA: Yeah, and then we’ve bought another site on the same airfield – 336th squadron, their camp. And don’t expect we’ll ever restore it, but at least we’ll stop it getting destroyed.
VA: The local farmer sold it to us cheap so it wouldn’t get destroyed. He knew that…
TA: Yeah, all the land around it come up for sale, and he split this plot off so we could save it.
JM: Oh, wonderful.
TA: Because he’d gotten interested. Because as a boy, he worked on his father’s farm with all the Americans around him. He didn’t want to see it destroyed either. Some of the Americans, we take up there – the ones that were in the camp. You know, they know their way around.
VA: They know exactly where the bed is.
TA: Yeah, they stand on their spot where their bed was.
JM: How many visitors would you say that you have?
TA: Well when we have an open day, we borrow some of the local fields nearby. And we have water and farming demonstrations as well. And on them days, you get 1000 people. But over the course of a year, in twos and threes, you’ll get two or three thousand. We have one big day a year, which people enjoy. And then we raise money and give it to the children’s hospice.
VA: Because we can’t keep it.
TA: Because it’s private and we aren’t a charity, whatever we raise, we give to this children’s hospice.
VA: ….donation box
TA: Yeah, what goes in the donation box we put in the bank to buy paint and such. But the money on the gate, and things like that all goes to the hospice. But hopefully next year, if we’ve got it registered, we can put it toward the restoration.
JM: And what’s the charge to get in?
TA: Usually about two pounds. We don’t do much, because I’d rather see more people. If you put the price up, you put people off, don’t you.
JM: Tell me about your relationship with the 95th now through the reunions, and what reunions you’ve come to …
TA: The first one we came to was Pittsburgh. Because a lot of the Americans had been to visit, they all encouraged us to come to the reunion, so we did. And they paid for it for us, the first one. And two or three years later, I went to Orlando on my own. And then we’ve come here, Washington. They always make us feel welcome.
JM: Is this your first reunion?
VA: No, it’s my second. I went to…
JM: You went to Pittsburgh.
TA: Yeah, and I went to Orlando on my own.
JM: Is there any of the 95th veterans that you’ve connected with?
TA: Well there was – Lefty, Lefty Nairn. But he passed on.
VA: Yeah, and he came to stay at our house, so we got quite friendly with him.
TA: He’s the one who really pushed us into coming to the reunions, encouraged us along, didn’t he.
VA: Yes, he did a lot for us.
TA: Of course we get along with all of them, but there’s always a favorite. (laughter) Yeah, Lefty done us well. He come to stay at our house – thoroughly enjoyed it, didn’t he.
VA: Yes, he did. Part of the family.
TA: We took him to Duxford and took him all around England.
JM: Well, any other comments or stories that you have to tell? You’ll probably get back to your room…
TA: Oh yes. That’s when I’ll start thinking of them (laughing).
JM: Have there been any major obstacles in the restoration?
VA: Oh yes.
TA: Yes, there was. The local Council.
JM: Really?
TA: Yeah, with Planning Commission
VA: And rights.
TA: And rights.
JM: Well tell us about that problem.
TA: Well the first one was planning. When we bought the site, it was registered as horticultural, and didn’t really realize, to be honest. The mushrooms had gone and we turned it into a museum. And the Planning Department turned up: You can’t do that. The Planning Commission. So it took a year to get it passed. But then on the other hand, a different department of the Council were encouraging you – the Tourism Department.
VA: But then another department wanted to rate us. They said we was running a business.
TA: They called it a business. They wanted four or five thousand pounds a year business rates. But we did get it squashed to zero rate.
VA: _____________ They couldn’t believe what we were doing, you see. They couldn’t believe that was a hobby. They had to come and see for themselves, and then they…
TA: So we got the Planning passed, and we got it zero rated.
VA: We had to get Planning to be able to live on site.
TA: This bungalow which is on site belonged to the man that run the mushroom farm. And when he left, the Planning went with him. So we got in a muddle for a little while, but we got over it all.
VA: They gave us permission to stay there, you know, to look after the museum.
TA: As wardens for the museum, really.
VA: So yes, we have had a few snags.
TA: A few problems. All come good in the end.
JM: So what have been some of the nice things that have happened that have sort of given you a shot in the arm.
TA: Well, it’s the comments from the visitors which keeps you going.
VA: And the little comments they put in our Visitors Book
TA: Yeah, you look in the Visitor’s Book, it’s quite encouraging.
VA: Even the lady who came round to revoke the rights was impressed, believe it or not. She said she was only doing her job, but she thought that was lovely.
TA: Which helped. I suppose we’ve got two more years work to finish the project. And then we’ve just got ongoing maintenance.
JM: What do you have left to do?
TA: Well, by this winter we should have finished the outside of the buildings. And then we’ve done 50% of the inside. So there’s plastering and ceilings and all the windows and doors are back in as they should be. It’s getting down to decoration, really.
VA: Obviously the main ward is not restored. Maybe, one day.
TA: One day, when I retire.
VA: There’s a cupboard up at the farmer’s, because I look after the old farmer – he’s 90. He’s still got a lot of the stuffed furniture out of the hospital he’s using in his house. He’s promised it to us.
TA: So we’ll get a lot of the original stuff back one day. But then we’d rather have him. So that’s our little project, really.
JM: Quite a big project.
VA: But to see the look on the veterans’ faces…
TA: Yeah, they appreciate it, I think. I certainly get that impression.
VA: ??
JM: Well thank you so much doing all this work, and making available to everyone. You’re very much a part of the legacy of the 95th.
VA: We like to think so.
JM: And thank you for taking time tonight.