Malcolm Smith
95th BOMB GROUP (H)
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
2001 REUNION LAS VEGAS, NEVADA
This is Karen Sayko from the Legacy Committee of the 95th Bomb Group; sitting in also is Sam Tarkington. We’re speaking with Malcolm Smith. Welcome. Could you state your name, where we are and the date, please:
My name is Malcolm Smith; we’re at the Monte Carlo hotel in Las Vegas and the date is October 3rd. 2001.
KS: Just to get some basic things on the record, what were your dates of service with the Army Air Corps as you recall them?
MS: Well, I enlisted in 1942 and I was out in 1945.
KS: What about your dates of service with the 95th Bomb Group?
MS: We went over in June of 44 and left in December of 44. We wanted to get all our missions done so we could be home by Christmas. We did it.
KS: Which Squadron were you in?
MS: The 336th.
KS: What was your principal career field in the 95th?
MS: Navigator.
KS: Go back to the beginning and could you tell us about your induction how it was that you ???????
MS: Oh, gee.
KS: Were you drafted or did you......
MS: No, I enlisted. I don’t remember any of that. There was one burning memory I have though and there’s been a lot of stuff contributed to the Newsletter about it and in books. I was there and I want to put my memories on record. Frankly, that’s the only reason I’m here. The only thing that interests me. Here I’m afriad you’re not going to give me that opportunity. If you don’t I’ll just get up right now and leave.
KS: How old were you and where were you living at the time of your induction?
MS: I was living in Chicago, Illinois. I was 19 years old and a college student. I had to go to my draft board to get permission to enlist . I was going to Illinois Tech Engineering School and they wouldn’t let me enlist. I had to go and plead my case.
KS: What do you recall about the training and where did you train?
MS: Initially I went to primary pilot training and I washed out half way through basic. Went back to Santa Ana, got reassigned to Navigation School at Hondo Army Air Base and graduated from there in April of 44. Then about a week later I went up to Rapid City Army Air Base to join my B-17 crew. I was the last man to join the crew. It usually worked that way, I think.
KS: Were there any memorable experiences during the training?
MS: None
KS: How did you get over to England?
MS: We flew in a B-17. I was the navigator. It was very hairy because we flew between
decks. The bombardier couldn’t get a drift because we had clouds below us. I couldn’t even do celestial because there were clouds above us and the pilot was afraid to climb over the clouds so I could do some celestial because he was afraid of his gas supply which was a crock. The only interesting thing about that was we were just buzzing along and I had no way of knowing where I was. I did have the meteorology which I knew was wrong. When we first started out I was able to get a few drifts -- my technique was to move the weather map over the map I was using. That tended to make the meteorology a little better. But what happened was I really didn’t get much. It looked as though we were drifting too much to the south. I wasn’t certain. Well time went on and I was really starting to sweat it out. I still couldn’t get a fix and the pilot still wouldn’t deviate altitude. Finally the sun came up. I’m probably the only navigator who has ever actually done it - and had to - I did a longitude by sunrise. This was a thing they teach you in navigation school but it was the one and only time I ever used it. I never met anyone else who did, but I was able to get our longitude. We were way short of where we should have been based on the flight plan. So I said, Well, OK, that wind had shifted around to the north and blew us way south. I just made an estimate. I told the pilot - I think it was a 35 degree correction to the north. He said, What? Course he realized on the way over I was the only man awake on board that ship. Both pilots were asleep, the bombardier - everyone was asleep. They were on autopiliot. Anyway, so what happened was it turned out to be a pretty good guess. As we got close enough to England then of course the
?? beacon started coming in. Then I was able to get my final heading. It did get us kind of close to the Irish in the south and we had flak shot at us. Oh yes, the Irish would do that thing. I was born in Scotland so I’m willing to say things like that. We made it fine but it was a little hairy at first.
KS: How long after you got to Horham did you fly your first mission?
MS: Oh, boy, for me it came pretty fast. They were always short on navigators. For some strange reason the statistics are that the mortality rate was highest for navigators for some unknown reason. It may have been fighters lining up at three o’clock and nine o’clock. I don’t know. By the time I got to Horham I had spent a few weeks here and there milling around. We finally got to Horham and I vaguely recall flying one or two training missions. I don’t know this for a fact, but I have a vague recollection that June 28th may have been my first mission. I’m not positive. I flew with another crew. We went to (mersenberg?) In any event, the bombardier got a piece of flak through the foot. The navigator is first aid officer, on top of everything else, so I got to treat him. It was a very eventful first mission. Before we ever got to the target we did see flak. Of course, by now, I’m 21 years old - I’m a man. However, it was such a shock to realize that there was someone down there trying to kill me. Someone was trying to kill me. It was a real shock to me. Over the target the bombardier got hit and I had to spend time working with him. I probably shouldn’t admit to this but what happened was I had to put a tourniquet on his leg because his artery was severed. It was pumping blood pretty good, so I put the tourniquet on. I did this and that - sulfur powder which you don’t dare use any more. I put that on and covered him with a loose dressing. By then the pilot is on my back. He wants to know where we are. I haven’t the slightest idea because I’ve spent about 25 minutes with the bombardier. I finally got it figured out, gave the pilot a fix because we had been shot out of the formation. I had forgotten to mention that. Then I went back to the bombardier to see how he was doing. Too much time had elapsed and I looked at his foot and his toes. They had turned black from lack of circulation. I thought, Oh, my God, I cost that man his foot. I’ll tell you, I was really scared and I immediately loosened up the tourniquet. Before I took the dressing off I got my back between his eyes and his foot. I ‘m down there blowing my hot breath on the foot and on the toes. Then I tried massaging ever so gently - just stroking. I worked on him for about 10 minutes and all of a sudden I began to see a little bit of pink in the toes. I worked on them some more and finally the circulation was back and everything was OK. Of course, then he was in a great deal of pain and I gave him a shot of morphine. The foot was cold. I forgot to mention, I put his foot in the bomb site cover because it was electrically heated and I was able to keep his bare foot warm. Anyway, I almost cost him a foot.
KS: It sounds like you did some quick thinking, though.
MS: Yeah -- If I had been able to stay with him but the pilot got on my back - I don’t even know the pilot. It was another crew. It wasn’t my own crew. It was funny when we got back we hit the ground with ??? flares - wounded aboard. My crew was there waiting to see me. I walked out and I’ve got blood pretty much all over me - looking real strange. They said, well, how was it? Well, it was, I don’t know - a hundred years. Oh! I became a veteran very quickly.
KS: Could you tell me about some of your memorable missions?
MS: Yes. My first mission was memorable. The next memorable mission was the Group’s second shuttle run, our crew’s first shuttle run to Poltava. We were on that one. Then, of course, the next shuttle run for us was the Group’s third shuttle run - also to Poltava. That was the one where we were supposedly dropping supplies to the Polish Patriots in Warsaw. That was really an ill-fated mission from the word go. I’ve seen a lot of things that people have written about that and they should. For some strange reason, I have yet to see anyone tell the beginning of the whole thing.
We got up one Sunday morning and we were briefed by intelligence, the whole thing, and we took off and we were up over the Scandinavian countries. The Mosquito plane, the weather plane, that the British were flying was reporting CAVU all the way to the target. We got an 8th Air Force weather recall. Weather recall? Well, see there’s a lot to the story as I say that I haven’t seen before. My memory of it is not perfect., I’ve got to be on record for that - but this part I do recall quite vividly - we were very unhappy and when we got back to the ground, I sought out our intelligence people because I wanted to know what in the heck is going on,. Well, what had happened was that Stalin did not want us dropping supplies to the Polish Patriots. It was as simple as that. Of course, Churchill and Roosevelt had been in favor of it but when Stalin objected I guess there were some kind of telephone conversations and Churchill and Roosevelt gave in. As I understand it from intelligence that was why we were recalled.
KS: Can I just ask one quick question? Would you tell us what CAVU stands for?
MS: CAVU - CA and visibility unlimited. We had perfect weather. That’s why a weather recall really got everyone wondering. Well, what happened was, we finally did take off the following Sunday. The whole week listening to the radio the message to Europe was “Polish Patriots hold on. Help is coming.” I swear, every hour you heard this message. Help is coming. Hold on. Help is coming. There’s only one way help can come. Now on the first briefing they briefed us for some nominal number like 35 guns to target - some ridiculous number. Well, a week later they were still briefing that same number. Except that when we got there the Germans had moved in flak cars on flat cars and everything else. They estimated that they may have gotten upwards of three hundred flak guns into that area in the week that they had. Everyone knew what was coming,. Big secret, you know,.
KS: What cities were these - Warsaw?
MS: Warsaw! OK - the command pilot is leading the mission. My pilot was Wayne Hansen. Wayne Hansen and our crew were flying deputy lead - that’s right wing and the lead group. Another thing about that mission the low group went in at 12,000’ the lead at 13,000’ and the high group at 14,000’. You can find the write up in the Readers Digest after the war where, I think it was, General Por was quoted as saying that when the B-17s came over they were up so high the flak couldn’t reach them. (Snort.) I’ll tell you, we had really major battle damage. I don’t think there was a single plane that didn’t get hit Someone once told me that it was 90% battle damage - whether 90% of the aircraft or just what. I don’t know what that means. In those days, people were very loose in the terms they used. I’m a mathematician and I like precision.
Anyway, we weren’t jumped by fighters on that mission but the flak was really thick. We made it. We got to the IP heading beautifully to the target and the bombardiers are all ready to hit the pickle switches when the lead plane drops their supplies. The drop point - we all thought that if we saw it and the lead plane saw it, we’re tooling along, we’re getting hit pretty hard and all of a sudden we see the supplies dropping out of the lead plane. I immediately yelled into my microphone “according to me we’re 12 or 13 miles short of where we should be dropping”. I talked to my pilot a few years ago, in fact I’ve only attended one other reunion and that was Wichita 91 or 92; I met my crew there. Seven of us who were still alive were there. That’s great. Anyway, I talked to the pilot then and he said it was his recollection that we dropped 8 miles short, maybe a little over. I said, I’m almost certain 12 or 13. At least 8 miles and I think really more like 10 to 12 miles short. In the Reader’s Digest article and several other articles I’ve read in other sources I’ve pursued with the ???????
the estimates were that upwards of 95% of the supplies fell into the hands of the Germans. Now, we in the 95th Bomb Group are still talking of how we dropped our supplies to the Polish Patriots. Those poor Patriots got diddily squat. The Germans got - most of the estimates place it at about 95% - those supplies. Why did that happen? The command pilot told the lead bombardier “Get those things out of here so we can take evasive action”. He chickened out - that’s what he did. I’m not a hero type, I was scared to death on every mission I ever flew but we fly all the way to Poland from England; we have already flown through all of that flak and you can see the fighters lining up to greet you ahead. To not go that extra 8 to 12 miles is really utter foolishness. The good colonel chickened out and how do I know this? Because when we landed at Poltava the first thing my pilot and I did was corral the navigator and bombardier from the lead ship. We asked, “What in hell happened.?” They said, “we were sitting there waiting to drop the supplies and the colonel actually ordered us to drop short. We were ordered to drop short. I have never seen that in print anywhere. As a matter of fact, an interesting side story to this, there was a writer not too many years ago who wanted to write a book about the good colonel. The whole book was going to be about this really great mission that he had flown. The writer learned that our crew had flown deputy lead and therefore should know something about the mission. He called my pilot asking for information. My pilot (he died last year) felt as I did about this. From that mission on, we always referred to him as the “chicken colonel”. He was a light colonel at the time, as I recall - but we called him the chicken colonel. That’s the true story of why those canisters went out too soon and why upwards of 95 %f the supplies never got to the Polish Patriots. The Germans got them.
Anyway, the other interesting thing about that mission - the same as the Group’s second shuttle mission and my first - as soon as you get into Russia, the Russian flak guns start. After we got rid of the German fighters, the Russian fighters came up and that was twice. We managed to turn them off. The Russians are crazy. They’re just crazy.
KS: You mentioned ? and also sent out fighters?
MS: Once we got over Russian territory
KS: And this was the first shuttle that was recalled.
MS: No, the Warsaw mission.
KS: And the second one did go?
MS: Did go a week later. Both were on Sunday.
KS: So, when you debriefed, was this reported? MS: No, no one ever asked me what I knew of that mission. Ha, ha. Ah, the guys with first hand knowledge, of course, are the bombardier and navigator.
KS: This little book ......
MS: You will read it but you will not read about that mission in the book. You will read that on the shuttle run going from Russia to Italy the lead plane (we’re flying deputy lead again) did get shot up a bit and they did have a temporary fire. It was no big deal but they said they were pulling out of formation and they said the colonel told them to bail out. According to this book there were 2 gunners who also bailed out. The colonel wanted to make sure that they got out. As we understand it from talking to the other crew members, as soon as the bombardier and navigator were out, the colonel called the rest of the crew and said “We put the fire out and everything’s fine. Don’t anyone else bail out.” So, this great strike team who really knew what had happened, never returned to Horham - except at a subsequent time. It was just about the time my crew was leaving England. As I understand it, what we were told, was that Bromberg was coming back to the base. We had heard that he had joined up with Tito. There’s a story in here though which never mentions Tito’s forces. I don’t know about that. The point I do know is this, Bromberg was due back on a given day and the day before he was due back, the colonel was on orders, left the base and went back to the States which was interesting timing.
KS: Getting back to the ? of the Russians was that reported by the pilots, by your pilots.
MS: I don’t know. No one was hurt.
ST: I assume it was just confusion?
MS: Just confusion. Let me give you an example. On my first shuttle run, in Poltava, that very first night I was awakened by a rifle shot and shortly after that another and another and another. I don’t know if it’s true but I had a Russian buddy tell me that if you’re a Guard and you want the Corporal of the Guard, you just point your rifle in the air and fire it and the next sentinel fires his until you get the Corporal of the Guard. That’s what I was told.
KS: Any other memorable missions? How many total did you have?
MS: Let’s see. My crew had 35 and I flew 2 missions with other crews. I had 37 and the crew had 35.
KS: Those were your most memorable, the Warsaw and the first one.
MS: Yeah, I guess so.
KS: Did you ever have any emergency landings.
MS: Yeah, but I just remember bare outlines and you’ve got to be careful when you talk to us guys. Through the years our memories do change things. I do know that I told a few war stories and in looking back I have embellished them through the years. I have gone out of my way to be accurate on this Warsaw thing because that to me was really serious.
KS: Can you tell us about some of the men on your crew?
MS: Well it was a pretty good crew. The navigator was also the mail censor in the crew. The officers’ mail wasn’t censored. They supposedly had enough sense not to say anything wrong. The gunners had to have their mail censored. The navigator had that duty. Our waist gunner always gave me four or five letters all addressed to girls. They were all identical except the Dear ... He always would have at least one sentence that would be unique to each of those girls. Other than that it was the same letter. I used to get such a bang out of that.
KS: Did you ever find anything that you had to scratch out?
MS: I don’t think I ever did. People did pretty much what they were told to do.
ST : Flying 37 missions in 6 months, did you have any time to just hang out at the base or in Horham?
MS: Not really. I think I got into town once. Went into the pub once. Looked around and no one wanted to say hello to me so I turned around and walked back to the base.
That was the end of that. My bombardier and I roomed together in a little quarters. It was just a small RAF building with 2 rooms. The bombardier and I had one room and I don’t remember who had the other - probably my pilot and co-pilot. It was right next to an RAF shower and bath. One of those huge British baths. Everyone was coming up asking if they could use our bath. That was it.
ST: What was it like to come home?
MS: When I came home that was the end of the war. I don’t think I discussed the war with anyone until about 1988. My boss at Riverside County Schools had seen the Memphis Belle and he wanted to talk about the war. At that point in time I think I finally decided maybe I’m willing to talk about it. Yeah, it was no big deal. The funny thing was that once I started talking about it with other people, I suddenly looked back and today I think it was a big deal. For all those ??? I never thought it was a big deal. Just something we had to do and we did it.
KS: We realize that and WE think it’s a big deal. You mentioned that 7 of your crew members were at the Reunion in the early 90s.
MS: Yes. Wichita.
KS: Had you kept up with them during the years.
MS: No, As a matter of fact, the reason that was my first reunion was somehow or other everyone lost track of me. When I got out in 45 I went home to Chicago. I was on someone’s list because I was asked if I wanted to buy a copy of Contrails for $5.00. I said, Yes. So I sent my $5.00, got my copy of Contrails and that was the last time I ever heard of or from anyone. Apparently my whole crew, except for me, would talk to one another. They got together but no one knew where I was. Part of the problem could have been this: for some reason, when we got back to the States, every crew member went on RR in Miami Beach except me. I didn’t get it and I’ll never know why. You talk about combat fatigue, boy, that was me. I never got the combat leave. In fact when I got to Santa Ana, I was pretty depressed. I went to the flight surgeon and asked if he could give me a physical because I volunteered. I wanted to fly another tour. I was nuts, I wanted to fly another tour in the Pacific. He said, well, I’ll check you out. Your pulse is 120 though and that’s too high. I can’t pass you. He said lie down on the table and I’ll check you a little later. I fell asleep. He came back two hours later, checked my pulse and it was still 120. I went for the next couple of years and couldn’t get my pulse below that. I never did get that really good flak leave when I came home.
KS: You mentioned that in the years since your first reunion, other crew members have died. Have you kept in touch with the others? Are the others here?
MS: Yes. I try to call every one of them at least twice a year all over the country.
I do have a little bit of a problem. I was recalled for a Korean tour so I have my B-29 crew. There are times when I get the 2 crews mixed up. I try to call everyone in both crews who is still living a couple of times a year no matter where they are. I went so many years not hearing from them.
One day I was looking at an advertisement in the LA Times and I happened to see something about a reunion. I realized that Veteran groups have reunions and they post a notice in the paper. I look down the classified and I see the 95th Bomb Group. First time I’ve seen those letters in years. They gave Dorsey’s phone number. I was living in California, got on the horn, called him and he sent me some material. Being an optimist I said I wanted to be a life member. I think, it was only $70. I sent him my 70 bucks to become a life member. Next thing I knew they were talking about a reunion in Wichita, Kansas. That happened to be the year in which my High School was having a 51st reunion because they missed the 50th. I’d never been to one of those so I went to the Wichita reunion and then drove on from there to my cousin Shirley’s in West Chicago and went to my HS reunion.
KS: We know that you faced lots of things and none of you claim the term hero ---
MS: Oh, I detest that word. The 100 hour war. All I got on TV were all these guys coming back from the 100 hour war and they were all heroes. I wondered how come I wasn’t ever a hero and I was there for more than 100 hours,.
KS: Did you see or observe anything that you would term courageous on the part of either yourself or others?
MS: I really think people have to go far out to do something that would appear to be courageous. I think most of the time it is just doing what the job requires. I’m not sure I understand courage. I was not courageous. As I said, whether it was Korea or Europe, every mission I flew I was scared to death. But I would not permit myself not to do what I had to do. That’s something else again. You won’t let everyone else down.
KS: Even in the midst of adversity we sometimes see humorous things. Do you recall
anything humorous?
MS: Yeah. The navigator was also oxygen officer. Every 5 minutes at altitude you’d call every position and get the ? for an oxygen check. I remember I called the ball turret. No response Bingo. The tail gunner goes rushing from his position that was little Benny ? . He’s dead now. He’s going to save his buddy. Not a single one of them thought to grab a walk-around bottle. I take it back it was the radio operator saved the day and the flight engineer. These guys all started passing out from lack of oxygen. But that was funny. It really was funny. It could have been tragic, but the way it ended up, it was funny.
KS: What do you feel was the most important benefit of the reunion?
MS: I guess just seeing the guys in my crew but since I’ve been retired from work I’ve seen the crew members a few times. I’ll make a trip and if they’re close I’ll stop off to see them. I’m not really sure to tell you the truth.
ST: ????
MS: I thought - they’re OK. It’s a little disappointing this time because my radio operator is the only other one here. My co-pilot is fading fast and the only other - my tail gunner he’s in good shape but he didn’t want to make it, I guess. There’re four of us still left alive, though. But at the one in Wichita we were going to get our picture taken with every living member of the crew and I screwed up. I’m not in the thing.
KS: Were you at the session last night by any chance?
MS: What was last night?
KS: Between 7:30 and 9:30 we met here with the Legacy Group.
MS: Oh, I didn’t know.
KS: We set it up for discussion with your recollections and where you were at the time of Pearl Harbor and your recollection and reaction of where you were at the time of the attack on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.
MS: Well, I was a college student at the time of Pearl Harbor. I was living in Chicago in an apartment building and one of my school mates lived in another apartment. I was in her apartment, my cousin was there and this girl’s boyfriend was there. We were just sitting around shooting the bull when the Pearl Harbor attack came. Of course, they were really shook. I said, Yeah, yeah, great. I was born in Scotland and from 1937 on I paid very careful attention to what was going on in the world. From September of 39 until Pearl Harrier I was very interested in what was going on. Of course, when Pearl Harbor came, all it meant to me was an opportunity finally to get into the war. I wanted this country into the war. I thought it was absurd that we were out. The people just didn’t seem to realize what was going on in Nazi Germany. Didn’t seem to understand it. I understood very well.
KS: Now your reaction to September 11.
MS: OK. I happened to get up early that morning, turned on CNN as I always do and I see this tower that’s really a mess. Then I see a plane hit the second tower. What the heck’s going on? I had just gotten up and turned it on. I was really shook. Then what really made me crazy was the politicians gathered to talk. As per usual they started making all these stupid statements. That always frightens me.
KS: Is there anything else you would like to add for the record?
MS: No, I don’t think so. You should interview people within a few months of their tour’s ending. 50 odd years later just doesn’t hack it.
KS: I wanted to add for the record, this is Karen Sayko with Sam Tarkington from the Legacy Committee talking with Malcolm Smith. We thank you very much for your interview and we also thank you for your stick-to-itiveness. We won’t call it courage because you disclaim it, but to duty.
MS: Thank you. I just wanted you to understand that I have tried to be as honest and objective as I can about this whole thing, but it is 57 or so years ago that this all happened.
ST: I know you primarily wanted to talk about that one mission.
MS: That was basically what I wanted to talk about.. There are so many things about the Warsaw mission that have been written and every time I read something about it, the author claims he was there. Maybe for him because he was somewhere else, but sitting there in the deputy lead position and knowing what was going on, I..................
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