Larry Gilbert
95TH BOMB GROUP (H) ASSOCIATION
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
2001 Reunion, Las Vegas, NV
Interviewed by Gerald Grove
GG: This is Gerald Grove from the Legacy Committee of the 95th Bomb Group interviewing Larry Gilbert. Welcome. Could you state your name, where we are and the date, please:
LG: The date is October 3rd, 2001. My name is Larry Gilbert and we’re at the Monte Carlo Hotel in Las Vegas.
GG: Just to get some basic things on the record, what were your dates of service with the Army Air Corps as you recall them?
LG: Well, I was sworn in in May of 1942 and I was called in November the 4th, 1942, active duty.
GG: What about your dates of service with the 95th Bomb Group?
LG: I’ll have to look. I got a group assignment to the 95th on April 5, 1944.
GG: When did you finish your missions with the 95th?
LG: Finished missions as a crew on – we were on the way August 12 back to England from Italy. So I guess I finished that day, August 12th. I’m telling you that we made it back and finished August 12th, 1944.
GG: You also mentioned that you were Operations Officer.
LG: My crew was sent home and I was kept over there by Mumford and McKnight to be Squadron Operations Officer much to my chagrin but I had to stay there another 6 months. The promise was that I would not have to fly again. Of course they couldn’t control that, so about a month after I was assigned, Captain Jack Beckelman (who became a Major) was my Squadron Commander and we were good friends. The word came down that all Squadron Commanders and Operations Officers would fly tours as Command Pilots in turn. So I flew 4 more missions as a Command Pilot.
GG: Where?
LG: Where? I don’t know. I cannot tell you to this day where we went.
GG: In which Squadron were you?
LG: I was in the 336th.
GG: What position did you fly with the 95th?
LG: I was a pilot.
GG: Let’s go all the way back to the beginning of your training if you would. Let’s talk about your induction and what you did there through your training; where the training took place?
LG: I was inducted in Houston with I think like 20 something other kids from Houston and sent to Santa Ana CA. Naturally because there are 3 airfields in San Antonio and one in Houston, they sent us to CA. Typical. There, of course, we were indoctrinated with all the shots, took the testing to see whether you were going to be a pilot, co-pilot, navigator. Then real rigorous ground school training – navigational training, weather, recognition – all that. I think that lasted, not really sure if it was 6 weeks or 9 weeks. I can’t remember. Then I was assigned to Thunderbird Field in Glendale AZ right out of Phoenix for primary training. We flew Steerman. I had never set foot in an airplane, by the way – ever – until I got in the first airplane. It was an open cockpit, you know the bi-wing. When the guy took off with me in it and the instructor turned, I thought I was going to fall out of the airplane. I swear, I had never been in an airplane. It was funny.
So I finished there and got sent to Baker for basic flying training. An old PT-13 I think. Funny incident. On the train, of course being from Houston, we were around people from New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and bragging all crazy about Texas. We got to Pecos in a windstorm in the middle of sand blowing everywhere and we got off the train and a fellow said, “Where did you say you were from?” I said “Chicago, Illinois”. I refused to say Texas. It was horrible. We had inspection – white glove inspection – no way they’d let you get away with it. It was a kick.
My instructor in Pecos was scared of flying. He was a First Lieutenant and he hardly let us do any aerobatics. I mean, he flew, but we had to do a spin, slow roll and split esses. I don’t know if they did snap rolls in that old PT-13 or not but he wouldn’t go up. We’d go up and he’d say “do so and so” and then he’d say “that’s enough”. I’d do one and “that’s enough”. It was amazing. Coming in he’d say “let’s go back” and I’d split ess in and he’d chew me out so bad for doing that.
It must have taken me the full eight hours to solo in the first plane I was ever in. I was the first to solo a PT-13 in our group. I think it took me 3-1/2 hours. It was so easy to fly compared to that Steerman. Big old wide landing gear. From there you put in for what you wanted to do and I said I wanted to be a twin-engine fighter pilot. P-38 naturally. So they sent us to Williams Field, AZ, from there and trained in an old AT-9 Curtis Tomahawk. Gosh, I hated that airplane. Everybody hated it. I just wanted to fly those 38s. Well, I crashed landed – we were taking gunnery in an AT6 (flew out of Luke) to ? I was at about 5000 to come in to strafe, shoot the target, and lost power and landed in the dessert wheels up. Took off part of the wing and gave me a bloody nose but right away they said “you’d better have a hearing. You probably ran out of gas.” I said, “Oh, No”! We had to switch tanks. They went out there and saw both tanks had gas in them so I was OK,. So, for an assignment, here we come ready to go. I was ready to be sent wherever and they said “we’re going to keep you here as an instructor in the AT-9”. I said “NO-O-O you’re not”. I refused, so they sent me to B-17 school. Went to Hobbs, NM. That’s how I got into a B-17. I was married at the time. When I told my wife who was there that I was going to B-17s, she said “How many engines does it have?” I said “four.” She said, “Oh, goody.” I said “What do you mean, goody”? She said “the other one only had two. This has got four. Twice as good.” Turns out she was prophetic. I didn’t want to do it but I loved it later. When I first got in a B-17 to learn how to fly it I thought I would never be able to fly it. You looked out – it was a hundred and some feet wide wing span. I thought it was the biggest thing I had ever seen in my life. I just didn’t see how I was going to learn. But I learned it real well. We stayed there until everybody got in training. You want me to continue?
GG: Yes, sir.
LG: I went from there to Salt Lake City to pick up my crew. None of my crew had ever been in a B-17. Nobody. Even the co-pilot. Never! My bombardier was 6’4” 225 pounds, barely got in, and 27. He was right at the max. He was from Houston but I didn’t know him. He called me aside when we all gathered up to get on the train and he said “there’s one question I want to ask you. How would you feel if we go flying somewhere over a target and we miss the target? What would you do?” I said, “Well, I’ve never done it but I guess we’d go back home. Why?” He said “I thought you were going to say we’d just crash the airplane into it.” He was scared to death of flying. So we got on the train and went to Alexander, LA. That’s where we took combat crew training. My co-pilot I met yesterday for the first time in 57 years. He’s here – Jim McRaney. We’re going to have dinner tonight together with him. He brought two of his kids with him. His wife said, “Boy, I’m so glad to meet you. All I’ve heard about your name – blah, blah.”
He told me yesterday, I didn’t know this, that the first flight we made in the B-17 as a crew – he’d never been in one. We took off and I said, “gear up.” He said “Heck, I didn’t know where the gear up was “. The engineer reached over and popped it up. I said, “Man, I’m glad I didn’t know it then.” He said, “That was my indoctrination.” The night flight we took and these are all my crew; they’d never been up and they were all scared. The night flight we had a fire in one of the engines. Oh, the engine ran away by the way, on the first flight. Had to feather one of the props. The next night flight one of them caught fire and I had to bring it all around. We were there, I think, almost 3 months.
GG: When?
LG: We got there around Thanksgiving – November ‘43, and we finished I think in February. I’m trying to think when we started out for – I don’t have it down when we went to Grand Island to get our plane. ‘Cause this is March and we’ve already left Presqe Isle, Maine. We left there February, middle or end, and left for Grand Island NE to pick up our plane. I’ll tell you a funny story about that. My tail gunner, who became my tail gunner, named Chester Salg, and several of us were in a restaurant in Grand Island and I think he’d been out hitting a few, you know. He came in and I forget the name of the coats we wore – the long nice officer coats; he said, “Skipper, can I borrow your coat for a few minutes?” It had the bar on it and everything. I said “What for?” He said, “Well it’s kind of cold and I want to step outside.” “Yeah, OK.” He didn’t show up and he didn’t show up. I said, “We’d better go find him.” We went outside and he had a private braced up against the building making out like he was a lieutenant. I said, “Boy, give me the coat. If the MPs come by you’re in jail.” That kid was crazy.
We left Grand Island and went to Presqe Isle, ME. My navigator – super navigator – got grounded because of ear problems. We were there 2 weeks in Presqe Isle, ME with snow banks higher than this room. Just murder. We wanted to go skiing and they wouldn’t let us. They said we could go ice skating if we wanted to. It was the end of February first of March. It had to be right around the first of March. (Looks in book) This is March 16 we just left Presqe Isle and got into – we were in Quebec, Mingan, and then we went to Goose Bay, Labrador from there. We took off from Goose Bay Labrador and went to Iceland. We were on instruments all the way from Labrador to Iceland. (Reading) ‘Climbed on top at 10 000, ran into rain that lasted two hours. 5 AM see the Greenland coast. Not yet daylight. Water on the Atlantic had frozen. Picked up Iceland range 200 miles out of Greenland. Can’t see a thing for the clouds. This is 8:55 in the morning. Passing over the range station made a let down through the ceiling 3000 in the clear snow just started.’
Jim landed – the co-pilot. I trained him. He’s a good pilot. Take off in the morning probable. Snowed while we were there. This is really interesting. We took off from Iceland last. Well, I say last, about 15th to take off. We were supposed to have good weather. As it was, I think I dropped down to about 500 feet above the water. all the way just about. My co-pilot reminded me yesterday that I opened the window, looked down, saw the sea the water, just to see how high we were. The Germans were putting out a false beam from Norway. We caught him. My co-pilot caught him. He said, “Hey, that ADF station shows we’re supposed to be going left.” I said, “I guarantee we’re not supposed to be going left. We’ll go on instruments and dead reckoning from here.” We were the 15th plane to take off and the first one to make it to Scotland. What happened was the RAF sent a bunch of Spitfires to head our boys back. They were heading for Norway – just follow that beam. In fact, we weren’t sure where we were. But I just knew we were supposed to be going that way so I called and the English picked me up. “We have you Yank,” he said. “Just follow me.” I said, “I don’t think so.” He was telling me how to come in. “That doesn’t sound right.” He said, “Trust me. We gotcha.” We landed. It was real low. I think we broke out about 400 or 500 feet, in Prestwick.
I think we were looking for Stornaway. Over Stornaway the weather was lousy. Still on instruments. Both the other crews are lost. ??? They would get there. Of course, it breaks your heart. We got there, people were nice as they could be. Couldn’t understand a word the Scotch boys, they were young kids, couldn’t understand a word they said. Not a word. They were telling us to come in where we were going to spend the night. Couldn’t understand them. They took our plane away from us. It was a brand new plane. We loved it to pieces. Then they shipped us in from there.
GG: You began your training in England at that point.
LG: Let me see where we went. Started out for England. Beautiful countryside. Made it to Stone, England. Won’t be here but 3 to 6 days then go about 60 miles from London.
GG: By train?
LG: Oh, yes. Didn’t fly anywhere. Drew gas masks. Nothing there. Trying to see when we finally got – here, going to Brotherton England, 25 miles northwest of London. Quite a large place. A lot of planes here, mostly fighters. We’ll be here for 2 weeks for school. See that was March 23rd. Two more weeks there! By the way, what we were doing there – we took the link system of a British radio system – they were very good, they were super. I think they were the ones who perfected radar in the first place. We saw a lot of air raids while we were there. The Germans. All we did was go to school. Seemed like our whole life we went to school. I see all this time we were there we were going to school every day. I said I put in for the 351st Bomb Group. I don’t know why. Somebody must have told me they were a good Group. Hope I get it. Supposed to be a good group. Here we go. April 4th, we got our Group assignment – the 95th Bomb Group. Hope it’s a good one. Gave us our APO # and all that. This is the travel name not far from London. This is where Horham is. They woke us up to leave on April 6th. We went by truck from there and arrived at the station – train wouldn’t be in until 9:55. We went by train to Cambridge and then arrived in a town called Haughley. Waited until 1800 for transportation to Horham where the field was located. Had a nice crew in the same hut.
GG: Tell us a little about your crew.
LG: You know, I hate to admit it but there’s one guy I can’t remember. It’s been so long. I wrote down in my diary just for kicks. In fact, I read it to Jim last night. His address: Box 1056, Lumberton, NC. Phone #272. Now Pete Waiveris was my radio operator. He was of Lithuanian descent. I can’t remember where he lived; here it is – Connecticut. He was so afraid to fly all the time and he flew the whole mission. When we got up in the air to go on a mission he’d click on, you know, as the pilot I’d radio check in, check in. He’d come on the radio and say OK.
(stopped taping for a few seconds)
My top turret gunner was our engineer. Was experienced. He was probably the only experienced enlisted crew I had. Very taciturn type guy. Didn’t believe in a lot of things. Just a strange guy – not too many people liked him for a long time – but very capable, very capable.
GG: What was his name Larry?
LG: Edmunds. Warren - no not Warren. Can’t remember his first name. (Editors note: TT was William K. Edmondson). I’ll tell you about my bombardier. He was Cleve Waters. I didn’t call him that but a lot of people called him Sleepy because he had those eyes – great big – had a mustache like Clark Gable – big face, big everything, big hands. He just always looked sleepy-eyed. So everyone called him Sleepy. Big, big guy. Tough, tough guy.
Then I had one navigator who got – finally when we got to flying my navigator was routed in Presqe Isle, was grounded from being in altitude, so I lost him and got a new navigator, Smitty, C.W. Smith, who had flown the ATC. He had flown the Hawk. Boy, he was a super, super navigator.
Then I had a couple of – Jeff Busad was the tail gunner who took my thing. Charlie Marlow was the ball turret gunner. Little old town guy,. I was telling the fellows outside, he was really crazy. He would land with the turret forward – the guns forward – while I landed to see how it looked with the ground coming up. I said “Charlie, don’t do that. If something happens, you’re dead.” He said, “Oh, I trust you.” So, he would do it.
Had another boy named Tom Rogers who was a waist gunner. Can’t remember the other waist gunner. My co-pilot will remember. Too many years ago.
I’m going to tell Jim, my co-pilot, family tonight. He’s dying for them to hear all this stuff about our crew. I’m going to tell them one thing about him. He was from North Carolina – deep south. He knew Civil War history better than anyone I’ve ever heard. I’m going to tell them that they didn’t know their Daddy was such a pro that when I got over there I thought the War between the States had ended in 1865 but I was wrong. It was still on in 1943 or ‘44. There was a boy from Chicago, Bob Just, I think his name was, navigator, who used to needle him constantly about the War. He was taking up for the Northern side and Jim was from the South and boy he knew his history. He would fight, charge in until he got so red in the face. He was an Irishman. And this guy was just putting that needle to him constantly. Old Jim would tell him all the facts and figures about the War. And, furthermore, if you want to carry it any farther, just step outside. He weighed about 135 pounds. This guy would just fall down laughing. He’d get him every time. He’d do that to him about once a month. I’ve got to tell them that.
GG: You started to mention other crews that – the other folks that you with, sir.
LG: We were in a quonset with one other crew. A fellow named Joe Hope from Arkansas was a pilot. He had been there when we got there. He was really a pistol. I talked to him since, by the way, I don’t know how he is lately. My co-pilot reminded me yesterday how he used to sleep.
He’d sleep and it looked like his eyes were open all the time. You never knew whether he was sleeping or awake. He was just that kind – he was great -– he would, you know on our missions we had an escape pack: benzedrene, money, ids. He’d break open that pack and take benzedrene so he could stay awake coming back. Then he’d get him a new pack. Crazy. If that happened to me, I’d probably get thrown in the brig, but he made it. I don’t remember much about except this kid that used to needle Jim all the time. I know he didn’t like ICU at all. A guy named Holbrook. I’ll tell you one incident that – well, you might want to ask me some questions first and I’ll tell you about Al later.
GG: ?
LG: Well, I made 4 missions to Berlin – flew to Berlin. My 1st mision was to Berlin.
GG: Date? Maybe April 16th or 18th?
LG: I didn’t go on the first one that they went on. In fact, I think I went as a co-pilot. Let’s see .
GG: I believe you made it on the 18th.
LG: Oh, yeah. Let me look. Yep. How’d yo know that?
GG: That mission was the first mission my Dad was on as well and you were on the first mission they were on.
LG: Come on! I’ll be darned. Yeah, of all the places to go on my first raid – Berlin. It was pretty rough. Bad weather. We lost our fighter escort near the target. I went as co-pilot for the first raid but flew most of it. I saw 3 Forts shot down in about 15 seconds by 10 Jerries. Gosh, they went fast. Flak put a hole in our tail and shattered the glass in the nose. No one hurt though.
GG: Did you fly the 19th, then?
LG: That’s what I’m looking. We were just a spare ship. Followed the group out a little past mid-channel and then came back. We flew the flag ship. Sure wish we had the chance to go on. Had forty two 100 pounders – incendiaries. Was he on that one too? I’ll be darned. Was he in the 336th? 335th, OK. Then on the 20th we bombed the French invasion coast. We thought it was going to be a milk run cause it was so quick. We had a very narrow escape. Eleven flak holes, two exploded behind Jim and one barely missed Edmunson. Particle cut his coverall sleeve, scratched his hand, knocked out a radio and hydraulic system. Sounded like a gun going off in the cockpit. He’s lucky to be alive. We hit the target pretty good. I’ll be darned.
GG: Did you go to Hamm on the 26th?
LG: Yeah, Hamm. Before that we were briefed to go to Leipzig but they cancelled the flight because of bad weather. Six ships collided in mid air that day. Went to Hamm and bombed the hell out of their marshalling yards, the nerve center of Germany. Beautiful job. We weren’t attacked by fighters but they got 3 ships below us. 30 Focke-Wulfs. We were flying the flag ship. Flak was meager. I’ll be darned. He was on that ship too. Sun of a gun.
GG: Did you fly on a mission to Friedrichshafen?
LG: Yes, I did.
GG: That’s where my Dad was shot down.
LG: Did he go on to Switzerland? Did he make it? Oh, good. Cause a buddy of mine went in there too. Saw him in Houston. He went in with me in Houston, Texas. He escaped from Switzerland and came back to our barracks.
GG: He was my Dad’s pilot’s best friend.
LG: Come on. Sam was? Yeah, he’s dead. He died. But he came back to Houston and he visited us in a Louisiana hotel. See, I knew Sam before we went into service. I never called him Sam; I called him Sellman. Everyone else called him Sam because he was from Texas. Friedrichshafen, just over the Swiss border. 8 hours and 45 minutes. We lost 3 or 4 ships in our group. Wilson went down over Switzerland. Was that them? Golly. Focke-Wulf shot out 3 engines. I saw him pass under us.
GG: I can show you the video tape of the plane crash.
LG: No kidding. Did everybody get out? Oh, good. Gee whiz. On the 25, he wasn’t there on the 25 th , we went to Dejjong along the bridge.
GG: (Unintelligible)
LG: You know what. That was a terrible place. I think…This friend of mine he told about… I saw him walk in the door. I was shipping stuff to his house and he walked in. I said, “What the heck are you doing here?” He said, “We escaped.” Swiss treated them terribly. Germans were allowed to roam around the town and they kept them locked – they treated Americans horribly. Yeah, I have no sympathy for the Swiss. They were pro-German, DeLuxe. Ok what else can we talk about.
GG: Toward the end of your missions. Was they any particular mission?
LG: Oh, yeah, it is. I have to find it but we bombed – I can’t remember – I’ll have to look it up – when we dropped supplies to the French Marquis in Southern France near Leon. My bombardier, this crazy big one, had been drinking the night before. Didn’t know we were going on a mission. So, he went into the bombardier briefing the next morning and came back and said, “Guess what. We’re going in on a mission at 500 feet. We’re dead!” My co-pilot and I said “Cleve, you’re still drunk. There’s no way we’re going in at 500 feet.” I went into my briefing and sure enough. So we flew in at about 17,000 which was night time, early morning, it was dark. We had a captain paratrooper. I was leading our squadron. The French had it all lit up. I mean ready to lit up. They had big V shaped things. When we made one pass, I forget how high, and then came around and made this last pass at 500 feet, they lit up everything. There were men, women and kids like crazy out there waiting.. We dropped guns and ammunition and supplies to them. Took off. The paratrooper who directed the drop was standing up beside me. I said, “Man, I wouldn’t trade places with you for the world. He said, “Boy, I wouldn’t trade places with YOU for anything. “ There was a German regiment, I think, about 8 miles away when we dropped. That was interesting. We went to Berlin several more times. Went on the Russian Mission – the Shuttle run. That was pretty interesting. We didn’t go on the first one where the German’s attacked and destroyed a bunch of our airplanes. We went on the second. It was right at the end of our missions. Let’s see if I can find it.
GG: While you’re looking - during wartime it’s hard to say you’ve one incidence of heroism but were there any acts of heroism that you may have seen or heard about or any particularly unique experiences that you…
LG: A fellow named Captain Baber trained me to be a lead pilot. We were on a mission to – I forget the name of the German town – and I was flying deputy leader, high squadron. He was leading. Anti-aircraft broke him in half - just took his wing right off. They all perished. I had to take over and take the group into the mission. Terrible sight – he came right by me. Horrible. You could see them reaching up – I don’t think anybody ever got out. Sad, sad. Terrible. But, I’m trying to think. We were so lucky. We got beat up but that’s about it. We made it all.
GG: When you finished your tour, and after being Operations Officer, tell me a little about what it was like when you came home.
LG: Well, let me tell you about going to Russia. I don’t know if it’s any big deal, but we took off. We were bombing, I think, Danzig corridor for Poland to go to Russia and we got hit somewhere out of Poltava. I was flying second element deputy leader to Bill Lindley who was the leader. Major Lindley – character. I was acting operations officer then because ours couldn’t fly. A hit came right by us and hit the low squadron and hit one of the planes but they made it alright. We landed there and the Russians ran out to greet us and took us in and all that.
The next day we flew out of there and bombed Poland again and flew back. Then they gave us a big concert, Cossack dances and everything. It was so funny – when they were loading up for this last mission – we were going to go to Romania and Italy – here comes these trucks with the bombs on board and they started kicking them off there onto the thing that was going to load them on the airplane. My radio operator (the one who was scared) took off and flew out of the site. They weren’t armed but he didn’t want any bombs flopping out on the ground. Crazy. I remember the kids that were helping us were super. They could say B-17 and OK. That’s about all. They gave us Russian money and we gave them English money. It was pretty neat. We got to Italy after bombing Romania. That’s the mission that Truesdale bailed out. We didn’t know it until we got back. We were there about 5 days because of bad weather. The Italian kids there – there were still German planes torn up on the base where we were. The kids came around and said “chocolate, Joe?” Everybody was Joe. I can’t use the language that they used, but one of them came by and we were teasing and we said “Hey, Joe, what do you think about the Germans?” “Germans no f------ good”. We said oh really, no kidding. I think Cleve said, what about the Americans? The kid said Americans no good either. Laugh. He didn’t want anybody.
After we got back I can tell you Mumford and McKnight called me - I had been flying with Lindley as his deputy leader and he gave me a big kiss off and said how great I was and all that - so my crew came home and I stayed over there. Jack Beckelman became Squadron Commander and I became his Operations Officer and set up a separate deal.
I’ll tell you what was interesting. Coming home – trying to come home. I was there from, lets see when I came home, August 12 th . I didn’t come home until March. 6 months. So Jack Beckelman was there before I was. He had been there and had some rough missions. He was blond, brush cut had a great patch about that big in his head. Oh, I’ll tell you something interesting. Noel Cumbaa was a West Point graduate who took flying lessons. He was a boy from Alabama I think. They called me up and said would you train him to be an Operations Officer? Right away they made him Group Operations Officer. He was a nice guy. I had flown 40 missions by that time. I was up at the club having a drink and somebody came up to me and said, “Hey, Larry, you’re up on the board to fly, to lead another mission tomorrow.” I said, “No I’m not I’m through.” He said, “Yeah, you are.” I went down to Operations and there is my name up there as Command pilot. I just took an eraser and erased it off. I’m back at the club. Noel Cumbaa comes up to me and says, “Larry, boy,” he talked with that Southern accent, “what’d you take your name off there for? You’re supposed to lead that mission.” I said, “No, I’m not.” I said “I’m through. I’m not flying any more missions. He says “Who’m I going to send up there?” I said, “You, I guess.” He had to go take the mission. He took it and flew it. Laugh. They made it all right.
So Jack and I were talking the next day. I said, “Jack, are you ready to go home?” Yeah, he had about 28 or 29 missions, but every one of them was horrible. He said, “Yeah, let’s see if we can go home.” We went to Wing headquarters. I don’t remember the Colonel’s name. Jack was a Major, I was a Captain, so he went in first. He came out and I said “What”? He said “He’s going to let me go home. I don’t know about you.” I said, “What do you mean? “ “Well, he’s got some plans.” I said, “Oh, God, don’t tell me that.” I went in and he’s sitting behind a desk, looking up past me. “Oh, I see, Captain, you have 39 missions.” I said “No sir, it’s 40.” “Oh, I’m sorry.” He says, “How long have you been here?” I said” I’ve been here a whole year.” “ Oh, that’s tough, I’ve been here 2 and a half years.” I thought, uh oh, goodbye. He said, “We’ve got plans. We want to make you Wing Operations Officer because you’ve got the most experience, etc.” I said, “If it’s all the same to you Colonel, I’d like to go home. I’ve got a new baby that’s just been born several months ago – September I guess.” I said, “I really would like to go home.” “ Well, OK” and he signed it. I came out and told Jack and he said, OK. When we got back to the base in the jeep, he said, I’m cutting the orders tonight. We left that night so that they wouldn’t change their mind. He was experienced and I was experienced and I just thought I was gone. I was going to be a Major, you know. We’ll make you a Major and you’re going to be Wing Operations Officer. I said, “Just as soon go home.” That’s how I got home.
GG: Did you go home by boat?
LG: By ship. 17 days convoy. We had a storm, we got a submarine alert. One time the ship let off those depth charges, whatever. Scared us to death.
GG: How many reunions have you attended?
LG: I’ve only been to one in Tucson in 1998 and this one.
GG: (unintelligible)
LG: I was looking at the Roster when I checked in. I’ve been trying to find him and he’s been trying to find me. Well I’ve moved around a lot and he did too. I just almost dropped my teeth. We met the other day and we’re going to meet tonight for supper with his kids. He wanted his kids to hear. I’m really going to load him up.
GG: We thank you very much for your story about the 95 th . It was a pleasure meeting you and, if you like, I’ll send you some copies of your debriefing reports from your first five missions.
LG: Oh great, I’d like it very much. Thanks.