Arl Cross
94TH BOMB GROUP (H)
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
2004 REUNION WASHINGTON, D.C.
JM: This is Janie McKnight with the 95th Bomb Group Legacy Committee. This morning we’re with Arl Cross. Arl, for the record, would you state your name, today’s date, and where we are.
AC: Arl Cross. 9/12/2004, and we’re in Washington, D.C.
JM: And what were your dates of service with the Army Air Corps?
AC: From November in ’43 until November in ’45.
JM: And with the 95th?
AC: Yes, with the 95th.
JM: What squadron were you in?
AC: 336th.
JM: And your principal job with the 95th?
AC: I was a waist gunner.
JM: And where and when did you enlist?
AC: In Little Rock, Arkansas. And it was in November of ’43.
JM: And did you have any memorable training experiences?
AC: I took gunnery training in Kingman, Arizona. And we did our flight training in Avon Park, Florida. We flew as a crew – we made up as a crew in Avon Park. We started our flying there, training for overseas.
JM: And when did you go to England?
AC: Must have been, probably, the first of November in ’44.
JM: Now you had a particularly memorable experience with the 95th. Can you tell us about that?
AC: OK. We were returning from a raid over Uma. We had a photographer on board, so our plane usually left the formation early, so film could be developed. And as we were pulling out of the formation, the vertical stabilizer of our airplane hit the underside of the leave, about the bomb bay, under the pilot compartment, or somewhere along in there. I was the in the top turret at the time. Of course, when I could see we were going into the other plane, I got out of the top turret because it was getting too close up there. Anyway, when I got out of the turret, I looked out through the pilot’s compartment, and all I could see was the ocean, so I knew we were in a dive. So I got the pilot’s chute and gave it to him. And I got the co-pilot’s chute, and then of course I put my own chute on. The co-pilot went to the nose of the airplane, you know, getting ready to jump out. And by this time I looked out and noticed we were flying straight and level. But the control stick was going back and forth, violently. And so I thought, well, I’ll kind of help the pilot a little bit, so I got in the co-pilot’s seat. The two of us couldn’t hold that control. So I thought, well, if I just prop something up against that, you know, it would hold it. So I had an extra parachute, so I propped the parachute between the co-pilot’s seat and the control stick. And when I did, of course, cables went everywhere. Something, a pully I guess, came loose up front. But anyway, the plane was still flying straight and level. So I don’t know exactly what happened in there, but a short time later I just happened to look out the window, and there was land coming up. So I remember turning to the pilot – I knew the answer, but anyway, I asked him, I said, “Do you think you can land it?” He said no. When we got over land, I got up out of the co-pilot’s seat and went back to the bomb bay. When I got to the bomb bay, I could see the guys had jumped from the nose. I could see them going down. So I jumped out of the bomb bay. And I guess that’s about…
JM: So what happened next?
AC: Well, (chuckle) I had been told, you know, don’t open your chute until you’re laying on your back, they said, when you can see the sky. But when I went out of the bomb bay, of course I was rolling, and I didn’t know how to stop from rolling. I couldn’t tell whether there was sky or earth I was looking at. So I just pulled the cord. That parachute stops you in a hurry. It gives you a pretty good jerk. Of course I was coming down in England in Camp Sea Ash, I believe was the location. And anyway, as I got closer to the ground, I could see that I was going toward a pretty good sized tree. I’d heard that you could slip those parachutes, and I pulled on the cords, but that didn’t seem to do much good. I just jerked real hard on those cords, and when I did, I just went straight down and stopped just before I hit the ground. Just stood up, you know. It was no big deal. Just like stepping off of a chair.
JM: And how about your other crew members. Did everyone survive?
AC: I believe we had six killed in action; one missing in action, which later, he had returned to his barracks and they just didn’t know about it; and three of us returned to duty.
JM: From that experience?
AC: Yeah, from that experience.
JM: And the other plane – how did the other crew members fare? Billy Liggett received a head injury, I think. I heard 17 stitches, I don’t know. As far as I know, he’s the only one who was hurt in the other airplane.
JM: And what position did he fly?
AC: He was the engineer.
JM: Did they ever determine what caused the collision? Was it pilot error?
AC: I don’t know. I guess. I just don’t know what.
JM: Was part of the training jumping out? Had you jumped before?
AC: No, no. And had no training. (chuckle)
JM: Other experiences in the 95th, other flights that you might remember that come right into your head. Maybe people that you met.
AC: I might mention one thing. This photographer that we had on board. This was his first mission. This particular airplane that we were flying, about three days before we got it shot up pretty bad. And they had changed both wings on it. And they didn’t have everything – all the bulkheads – back in. But this really helped out. We could see from the pilot’s compartment down to the nose real well. It was easy to get down there. So that kind of helped out.
JM: So when you got back to base that night, did you all gather together and talk about what had happened?
AC: I was the only one who walked into the barracks, so.
JM: Oh, really.
AC: Yeah. And one of the guys in there was kidding me later. He said, “Yeah, we had to pry the rip cord out of his hand.” That wasn’t correct, but anyway, he was kidding me about that.
JM: Were there any memorable people in the 95th that you got particularly close to or that made a difference in your time there?
AC: About the only ones were my crew. And of course at the time, I didn’t know what had happened to my crew. I just thought they’d be picked up and be back at the barracks later. And I never did hear anything about any of the others. I was asked if I would identify Detwiler, which was the engineer. But one of the other guys in the barracks volunteered to identify him. But he’s the only one I ever heard anything about.
JM: What mission was it that you were flying?
AC: It was either the 24th or 25th.
JM: Oh, so close. I had another question, and I can’t remember it. So after that mission, were you sent home?
AC: Yes. I guess it was the next day that there was a 2nd Lieutenant that came to the barracks and he said, “Do you want to go home?” And I said, “Yes, when can I go?” And he said “I’ve got to write up the orders first.” (Chuckle) So I guess I was a little bit eager.
JM: And how was that trip home, and your homecoming?
AC: I went back on board ship. I’m not that crazy about ships, but was really an experience.
JM: Tell me about it.
AC: Well, we went back across the Atlantic. Of course we hit no storms. The Atlantic is evidently rough at that time of the year. It was quite an experience because the first around and said, “Do you want to volunteer for KP before you get guard duty?” And it wasn’t long til they came around: “Do you want to volunteer for guard duty before you get KP?” I’d always heard “Never volunteer”. We were about five days out, I guess. And this sergeant came around and he said, “Are you Arl Cross?” And I said yes. I thought I was in trouble. And he said, “I’ve got a job for you.” And he took me up to the Captain’s bridge. But he didn’t tell me that was the Captain’s bridge. He just said, “You’ll stand guard duty here.” And gave me the hours I would stand. And of course there was a Marine there. I talked to this Marine quite a bit. There wasn’t anything to do but just guard up there. And anyway, there was this guy that kept coming out in civilian clothes and he’d say good morning or good afternoon, or whatever. So after about, oh, three or four times of this I asked the Marine, I said, “Who is this fella that keeps coming out here?” And he said, “That’s the Captain. That’s the guy that you and I are guarding.” (Laughing) So I really enjoyed that experience.
JM: When you got home, where did you come into?
AC: Newport News, Virginia. In fact, I’ve been back there and seen the place.
JM: And how did you get back to your hometown?
AC: By bus. And this was, I believe they call it a delay en route. I was going to Santa Ana Air Force Base. And then from Santa Ana I left and went to Randolph Field, Texas where I was discharged.
JM: How did you start coming to the reunions?
AC: My wife read about these reunions in our newspaper in Fort Smith. It really shocked me. She told me about it and I read that. We were just getting ready to go on a trip, and we were going to go up to Boston. Well that was where the reunion was. The only thing is, our paper had the wrong date. And so we missed it. But I was there next year, which was in Wichita.
JM: What year was that?
AC: You know, I don’t remember what year that was.
JM: The ‘80’s?
AC: I would think probably the ‘90’s. And I’ve only missed one since. That was in Reno last year when my wife was sick. So I couldn’t come.
JM: So how was it, reconnecting with people?
AC: You know, I wasn’t very excited about it because I thought, well I won’t know any of those people, you know, because my crew was gone. But then I get out there. Of course the first people I met was asking me, “What squadron were you in?” And I said, “I don’t remember what squadron I was in.” One of the guys said, “Well, who was your pilot?” And I said, “Dunwoodie.” And he said, “Well, you were in the 336th.” (chuckle) So I’ve met some real good friends, you know, that I didn’t know. I met two people that was in my barracks over there that I remembered. I’ve made some real good friends other than that.
JM: You said one of your crewmates became a POW?
AC: No, he was missing in action. But he just came back to the barracks and – it was just paperwork, is all it was.
JM: Does he come to the reunions?
AC: No, I’m the only one left – the only one still living now.
JM: Did the two of you have any time together after that incident to sort of process what happened to you both?
AC: No. I didn’t see my pilot after that. The last time I talked to my pilot I asked him if he could land it – if he thought he could land this airplane. That’s the last words I said to my pilot. And I never did see him after that.
JM: Are there any other experiences you’d like to tell us about? Anything about life on base? Any humorous incidents?
AC: Well, I can’t think of any right now.
JM: Well thank you so much, Arl, for your service to our country, and for taking the time this morning to do this interview.
AC: Well I thank you.
* * *
JM: This is Janie McKnight again with Arl Cross, telling me about a phone call that he had from someone on the crew.
AC: The fellow that was missing in action was C.B. Knoll. And he was from the state of Arkansas, but I didn’t realize it at the time. He remembered me. He stayed in the Air Force – retired from the Air Force, and then was a Forest Ranger or something after that. But he came back to Meena, and when he came back to Meena he gave me a call. Of course we talked several times, and I was going to go down and we were going to have coffee together and talk. But I was getting ready to come to one of the reunions, and so I was going to call and invite him. No one answered the phone. I called several times, but no one would answer the phone. So I knew a guy from Meena, and I saw him later on, and I said, “Do you know C.B. Knoll?” And he said, “Yes, I know him.” He said, “He died the other day. He had a heart attack in a café.” So I never did get to see him.
JM: When did he contact you? Was it like the early ‘90’s or something?
AC: I would say in the late ‘90’s. I don’t really remember the year.
JM: And what position did he fly?
AC: He flew as togglelier. Our toggelier, Quisenbury, which is at this reunion, was in the hospital at the time. So this boy took his place.
JM: Well thank you so much again, Arl.
* * *
AC: …what our first mission was. But anyway, it was pretty rough. Our pilot wore a silk scarf. And a piece of flak put nine holes in the scarf and then hit him – he had his flak helmet on. And this piece of flak hit the back that helmet from the inside. Didn’t bring any blood anywhere, but it knocked him out. Of course when it knocked him out, the co-pilot had to grab the controls. And it threw me – I was in the waist – and it threw me up against the top of the airplane real good. Bent my gun site, pulled my intercom out. And after the bomb run was over, we were all checking in. And I didn’t check in, you know. And the radio operator, I saw him looking back there, and he was going like this, you know, to hook my intercom up. So I did that.
JM: You hang around with Fred Kinney and Ed Davidson and Eldon Broman. How did you – what is your connection with them?
AC: Okay, Eldon Broman and Doris, when they retired, they moved back to Arkansas. They’re from Wisconsin. I’m not sure that that’s right. But anyway, when they retired, they moved to Arkansas. In Wichita, Kansas, we were waiting for a bus, and Fred Kinney was talking to them – to Eldon Broman, they were good friends. They were prisoners of war together. So anyway, he was kidding Doris. Something was said about them being from Arkansas. So I perked up, you know, and began listening. Anyway, Eldon Broman is just – we’ve gone on some cruises with them and we’ve come to some of the reunions with him. And he’s just a swell, swell guy. I tell you, I think the world of him. He and Doris too. They’re really good people.. And I get the biggest kick out of Fred. He’s a kidder, you know. I really like those guys.