Jim McRainey
95TH BOMB GROUP (H) ASSOCIATION
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
1999 REUNION PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA
MBW: For the record, this is Margaret Blagg Weaver conducting the interview at the Pittsburgh 1999 reunion. Today’s date is September the 10th, 1999. Please state your name for the record.
JM: My name is J. T. McRainey, Jr.
MBW: Okay, thank you Mr. McRainey. To get some things on the record, what were your dates of service with the Army/Air Corps?
JM: I was called to active duty in January of 1943, and discharged in September of 1944.
MBW: Okay, and what about with the 95th? What were your dates of service?
JM: I arrived at the 95th in early April. My first mission was on April 20th, Hitler’s birthday. And my last mission was on the second shuttle run to Russia, which I believe was August 12th, 1944.
MBW: Okay, and what squadron were you in?
JM: 336th.
MBW: What was your principle job?
JM: Co-pilot.
MBW: Okay. Let’s just go back a little bit to the beginning, and tell me about how you got into the service, how old you were, and where you were living at the time.
JM: I was going to North Carolina State College in Raleigh. And I was a sophomore. And I had begged my parents to let me join since Pearl Harbor. And they finally signed the papers for me to join in June of 1942. And there was such a waiting list. I took the exam in Raleigh and was sworn in, and told that I would have to wait until there was a vacancy. And there was not a vacancy until January of 1943. And that was my date called to active service.
MBW: Okay. And could you tell us a little bit about your training. Did you have any memorable experiences in training?
JM: Well, I went to classification school in Nashville, Tennessee and had pre-flight at Santa Ana, California, and primary flight at Santa Maria, basic at Chico, California, and advanced at Yuma. And I think one of the amusing things that happened at Yuma was this was the first time we had flown a twin engine plane, or a plane with a retractable landing gear. And they had a safety device on there in case you forgot to lower your landing gear when you were landing. If you pulled your throttle back more than half or two thirds of the way, a real loud claxon horn would blow. This cadet came in, bellied in, splinters flying all over the place. Radio operator and ambulance driver came out, and he was unhurt. The tower officer was screaming, “Didn’t you hear me tell you to pull up? Didn’t you hear me tell you to pull up?” He said, “I couldn’t hear a damn thing for that horn blowing.” I’m not sure that’s a true tale, but that was one they used to tell anyway. (Chuckling) That was the most interesting thing we had in flying. We had one person who was killed in primary, and other than that we were okay.
MBW: And how did you get over to England?
JM: We flew our own plane. We picked up a brand new B-17 in Nebraska, Grand Island, Nebraska. And we flew from there to Presque Isle, Maine. That was the last of February of ’43. And our navigator had an infected ear, and we had a problem letting down. Every time we let down he would start screaming, and we would pull up a little bit to relieve the pressure. So we stayed in Presque Isle in the dead of winter for two weeks. After that period we left Presque Isle and flew to Goose Bay, Labrador and spent the night. We flew from Goose Bay to Keflavik in Iceland, spent the night. And then the next morning we flew into Prestwick, Scotland and turned our plane over there. And then we were sent to Bovingdon, England for a two-week indoctrination course before we were sent to the 95th for combat duty.
MBW: Then how long after that was it before you had your first mission?
JM: I don’t remember exactly, but it was probably about two weeks. I know right after we got there, I had flu or something like that, and I spent two days in the infirmary or hospital at Horham. I always remember that when you’re laying flat on your back, they had model airplanes painted black – hundreds of them – hanging from the ceiling so that you could lay flat on your back and study your aircraft recognition (laughing). And our first mission was what they call a “NoBall” mission, which is an English term, a cricket term. And we were actually bombing, or trying to bomb, the buzz bomb ramps that were in the Calais area. Of course they didn’t start using the buzz bombs until after the June 6th invasion of Normandy.
MBW: Could you explain to us that “NoBall” term to us a little?
JM: “NoBall” – all I know is that they told us no ball was a cricket term. And it has something to do with the game of cricket. I don’t know.
MBW: That’s interesting. And what did it mean in your mission terms? Did it mean an easy mission, or a…?
JM: Well, it was supposed to be an easy mission because it was just across the Channel, close to Calais. They told us it would be four 88-millimeter guns on us. And we bombed in three-ship formation, which was very unusual. It was usually eight-ship. We bombed three-ship formation, and instead of four 88 guns, there were eighty-eight 88 guns firing at us. And we had what they call major battle damage where they couldn’t put the plane back in operation for more than 72 hours. So that was our baptism of fire, I guess.
MBW: What was your next most memorable mission after that?
JM: Well, the next one, which was – I don’t remember whether it was the first Berlin. I had three on Berlin. I don’t know whether it was that, or whether it was Friedrichshafen. But another co-pilot who I finished school with – his name was Kowalczyk – and he was wanting to really fight the war and defeat the Germans because he was Polish and had some Polish ancestors that he hadn’t heard from. And we were bombing Friedrichshafen, which was on Lake Constance – it’s a lake that borders Switzerland. And we were flying the middle of the lake, which immediately to our right is Switzerland, and immediately to our left is Germany. And we were hit by fighters and Kowalczyk’s plane, they called in and our code name was Fireball Red, and he said, “Fireball Red,” he said, “I’m losing all pressure on one engine and I think I’m about to lose another one.” He says, “What should I do?” And I don’t remember who was leading the mission, but he said, “This is Fireball Red lead.” He says, “You damn fool, turn right!” So he turned right into Switzerland, and spent the rest of the war there. And then of course every time – the first mission I think to Berlin which Colonel Mumford led was on March 4th, and I flew a mission to Berlin sometime in April, which was first, and they called it Big B. They told us they had 1,000 guns protecting Berlin. Of course we were petrified to go to Berlin. But that was the early missions.
MBW: You got there and back.
JM: There and back. And one of the interesting, I don’t know whether you’ve had an interview from this, but I think when you first went over there, they gave you the worst airplanes in the group to fly. And if you survived the first four or five missions, then they gave you a new plane to fly. And one that we flew that was really beat up – I think it was a B-17F, it might have been a G – but it was called the Flagship. And on the nose of the plane, the crew that had had it earlier had painted an American Flag on the nose, and under each gunner or pilot’s position, they had painted a state flag. And I always thought that was a good way to name an airplane.
MBW: That is interesting. When you got a newer plane, did you get to name your plane?
JM: Yes. We named it for the first pilot’s wife. Larry Gilbert was the first pilot. He was from Houston, Texas. And we named it Irene’s Folly for Irene.
MBW: Did you get to keep that plane the whole time?
JM: We kept it the rest of our missions, yeah. Every person on that plane had a piece of flak come within 10 inches, 6 inches or so of him, and we didn’t have a person wounded the whole time. We didn’t abort a mission and we had nobody wounded. And we had several that had major battle damage on there.
MBW: That’s wonderful, yeah.
JM: Somebody was looking out for us (soft laughter).
KS: That was sort of unusual at that period, wasn’t it?
JM: Yes, it was.
MBW: I’ll say for the record that Karen Sayko from the Legacy Committee has also joined us to help interview. Tell us more about some of those memorable missions you were mentioning in the beginning.
JM: Okay, shortly after D-Day, the bombardiers went to their briefing and the navigators, theirs. The rest of us stayed in the main briefing room. And the bombardier came in and said, “Well, we’re going in at 500 feet today.” And we had been used to bombing at 25 – 27,000 feet. And I told Cleave he was still drunk from the night before - that we just didn’t do that. But sure enough, we did. And we had real large canisters, oh, about four or five feet long and probably 18 inches in diameter, and a parachute fastened on each end of it. And they were hooked up in the bomb bay. And we flew across the beachhead. We flew down by Orleans, France, and into the mountains, probably 150 – 200 miles west of Lyon. It was really a Hollywood type thing. They had a cloth panel A on an opening in the mountains on top of a knoll. And we lowered our gear and our flaps, and we were flying 135 miles an hour. We went over the target the first time, and saw the panel letter A. Came back again, and dropped. And then we made another circle in case some were hanging up in the bomb bay. The radio operators were issued pocket knives so they could cut the parachute loose if it was hanging up in there. But we didn’t have any hang up. And we could see them with some trucks coming out of the woods, and the people coming out to get those supplies. And also, one of the French underground men went on this mission, and bailed out when the supplies were turned loose. Another one was D-Day plus 1. We had so many planes in the air during that period of time that we were actually flying a traffic pattern from England to France and back. We bombed a railroad bridge at Nantes, it’s where the Loire River comes out. We were doing tactical bombing at that time, rather than strategic. We started that about a week or so before the invasion, and we were bombing targets. They were really easier for us than deep penetration targets because the missions were shorter and there wasn’t as much flak on these missions. We hit that bridge at 17,000 feet, which was normally lower than we flew, but we really blew it out of the water. And I have a strike photo showing the bombs exploding on that bridge. Just the fact that there were so many planes in the air at that time. And flying a traffic pattern on a bombing mission was rather strange to me, I think.
MBW: That is strange. And they were relatively short missions, I guess.
JM: Well, the strange thing about this short mission business is it takes about two hours. Our normal mission was about eight hours. But it takes two hours to get up to altitude and get in formation, and get group, and wing, and air force formed. And although you may not be over enemy territory but twenty or thirty minutes, a mission is usually – a short mission is five or six hours long, you see.
MBW: I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about that process of formation, because I think that’s fascinating. How they possibley got hundreds of planes out of that tiny patch of England all up in the air in formation. How did that work?
JM: Well, it was usually cloud covered. And each base had a flare that had a particular color to it. And the lead plane, when he took off – you take off, and you have an instrument called a needle ball. And you’d turn a quarter of a turn on the needle to the left and climb at 500 feet a minute above the base and you were in the clouds. And there were a lot of planes that ran together, and there were a lot of people killed in those rendezvous’. If you throw 1500 planes into the clouds with no radar, and they’re circling, and the wind is drifting them too, and you have those 1500 planes in the clouds at one time, then it’s extremely dangerous because your needle turn is not that accurate. And we have actually been in the clouds, and the prop wash from a plane somewhere close to us would just flip a wing up. There were a lot of casualties in those rendezvous’. And then when you got through the clouds, your leader – you’d usually break out say 8 – 10,000 feet, something like that, and maybe we were going to rendezvous at 15,000. The leader would begin to shoot his flare. Now the 95th Bomb Group’s color of flare was a red and a green. You had a cartridge, and when it fired, you’d have a ball of red and a ball of green fire. And the planes would rendezvous on that flare. Now, the B-24’s, one of those was flying. We used to see them occasionally. They had a special plane to rendezvous on. They had a B-24 painted with polka dots (chuckling) so their fellas could find them and get on the plane. Then you would rendezvous straight over the top of Horham. That gave you group formation. Then they would tell you – I’m going to pick Diss because it was close, but it would be further, that the 95th, if it were leading the wing, would be over Diss at 6:03 a.m. on a heading of due north. The 100th would be on a heading, on a northeast heading over Diss at a specific time. And the 390th would be coming in at another angle. So that the three groups came over the top of the city at a specific time. Then you had wing formed. And then that wing was supposed to be over, say, gGreater Yarmouth on a heading of maybe 15 degrees – almost a northerly direction. And they were supposed to be over greater Yarmouth at say, 6:28 at a set altitude and a set heading. And then three minutes later, another wing would be over this same town and same altitude. And three minutes later, another wing. And three minutes later, another wing, until you had the wings scattered out three minutes apart in a straight line, until you had the whole 8th Air Force formed.
MBW: My goodness. And that took about two hours to do.
JM: To get up and rendezvous, yes. To get them all together in a line.
MBW: Did it work out that precisely with the timing?
JM: Yes. I don’t ever remember anybody not being at the rendezvous when they were supposed to.
MBW: And how were you trained to do that? Were you trained over here before you went to England, or was that part of your training once you got to England?
JM: Primarily when we got to England. The strange part about combat crew training was, I don’t think we had but one or two high altitude flights in combat crew training. And then when we flew to England, in the United States, the radio signals that give you your direction around the bases, you have a Morse Code: A in one quadrant, N in another. A, N, A and A and N and N, so that you can turn in a direction and find out which way you’re going. And when we went into England after leaving Iceland, nobody told us that the English used a straight line instead of a cross. And their quadrants were E and T. And we were in the clouds coming down, and it was an English lady on the tower. We couldn’t understand what she said. And we were in the clouds and coming down to Prestwick. And we saw the runway, and they started shooting flares on the runway, which was a common thing there to let you know that this was the runway. And they were shooting red flares, and we thought that was danger. And the first pilot said, “You need the experience to land this plane.” I said okay. I said, “Will we put it down?” I said, “Should we go around? Should we put it down?” He says, “I don’t know.” So we landed on the last third of the runway. We found out later that that was the normal procedure for them.
MBW: My goodness. You really learned on the job.
JM: That’s right. It was primarily on the job training.
KS: You mentioned that all this forming up was done just on this needle ball.
JM: Right.
KS: At that time, there was radar on the ground. There was not radar in planes, correct?
JM: The lead plane had radar. Downward facing radar. You didn’t have side angle radar, or any other kind. If you went to Germany, the leader could bomb say, the city of Berlin on radar if there was cloud cover. If you went to France, the Netherlands, or Belgium, you had to be able to see and identify your target to drop the bombs. But Germany, everything was open. You could bomb through the center of town, anywhere over there. Because when you went to bomb a target, you had your primary target, your secondary target, and your target of last resort. Only that he had the radar.
KS: Now on the flares. Those were shot with a flare gun? Was that the pilot that did it out the window or something like that?
JM: Usually the engineer fired it. You had the pilot and co-pilot on the B-17. And then behind, you had the top turret. And your engineer / top turret gunner was there. And you had an opening in the top of the plane, and it looked like, the shell, looked like a big shot gun shell, about maybe an inch and a quarter or an inch and a half across about four inches long. And you had this Verey pistol, or a flare gun. You could pop the flare gun through the hole in the roof of the ’17, and turn it about a quarter of a turn and it would lock it in place. Then it would look like a pistol with a big barrel on it. Then you could unlatch the handle part and load a shell in there and fire it. And it would fire right through the top of the roof.
MBW: You mentioned that your crew always did make it back. Did you always make it back with the group? Or did you ever straggle in any time?
JM: No, we never did leave formation. We had an engine shot out a couple of times. We came in on three engines a couple of times, but we never did leave formation.
MBW: What about the shuttle mission? You mentioned a shuttle mission.
JM: Okay. We were on the second shuttle and I had 32 missions in. The shuttle was supposed to be three missions, which would give me my 35 when I got back. We took off, flew up in the North Sea, and crossed the peninsula just north of the Kiel Canal, and flew east on the Baltic Sea until we came to the Polish Corridor. And we bombed, I think it was an aircraft factory plant near Gdynia. I think the name now, they’ve changed it to Gdansk in the Polish Corridor. We flew back north into the Baltic Sea, like we were coming back to England. Instead, turned and flew in a southwest direction across East Prussia to Poltava in the Ukraine of Russia. One of the interesting things happened over East Prussia. Captain David Henderson, who was the 95th Group photography officer, flew along with us in the plane. And he had said before he left that he wanted to get some pictures – very interesting pictures. This flight lasted 12 hours and of course, without pressurized cabin, you’re on oxygen. We’d been there, I think, probably longer than eight hours in the air and we had done our bombing and everybody was beginning to relax a little bit. Our plane was leading the high squadron. So we pulled out to the right to loosen up the squadron and let everybody relax a little bit. It was rather hazy that day. I just looked up and blinked one time. There was an ME 109 right in front of us. And he was so close that you could see the fire coming out of the gun on his wings. And he did a roll between us and the lead squadron. And when he went by, I could actually see the oxygen mask on his face and the pilot in there. And Captain Henderson was in the waist, and I called back and I said, “Did you get a picture of that?” He said, “The man hadn’t been built that was that quick.” (Laughing) But Captain Henderson did make a lot of pictures in Poltava when we were there and on the whole trip, and gave us some before we left when we got back. When we landed in Poltava, we landed on a steel perforated landing mat instead of an asphalt runway, which was temporary and I understand was used a good bit in the Pacific because they were quick to assemble. The Russians were there, and we were trying to trade our insignia- our wings and US’s for their red stars on their lapels. They told us they couldn’t replace them and they’d get in serious trouble if they traded those. They just wouldn’t trade. They were guarding us. We lived in tents while we were there. They had rifles and bayonets and they were marching outside the tent. We tried to give them some cigarettes. As long as two Russian soldiers were together, they would not take a cigarette. When they were by themselves, this Russian soldier took the cigarette. And while his buddies were not there, he wrapped his white paper American cigarette in brown paper and smoked it so his buddies wouldn’t see him. One of the other things, I hope I don’t embarrass you here. But the co-pilot was responsible for picking up the bag that had the escape money in it. We always carried French francs. On our normal missions we carried French francs and I believe it was U.S. dollars on this in a sealed waterproof packet. We had a little, I think it was a Mars bar and some hard candy where we could put our oxygen mask in and flip it in, and that was all we had to eat from about two o’clock in the morning until about five that afternoon, I think. But in this packet, when we got into briefing, the briefing officer said, “Now in your bag today,” he says, “I want to tell you when you get to Russia.” He says, “There are two things you cannot do. You cannot discuss religion. You cannot discuss politics.” But it just so happened, in this bag that we took with us, there were condoms for all personnel on the plane, and pro kits. It was all right to discuss, I guess, whatever, though we couldn’t discuss religion or politics (laughing). After we spent the night there, the next day we got up, and the Russians wanted us to fly a mission for them. They were loading the bombs on there and they just pulled these trucks out to the planes, and they rolled these big old welded crude bombs off the back of the truck and they fell four feet to the ground. We ran out and got in the ditch bank while they loaded the bombs – the fins on them. And you couldn’t disarm those bombs like we could ours. When you took them, you dropped them. You didn’t bring them back. And we flew to an all oil storage depot in southern Poland. We bombed – there were three 12 ships groups, I think, on this mission. And we bombed and went ahead and made a 360 turn so we could pick up the others in formation, and we were at 22,000. And when we made our turn, smoke was level with us at 22,000 feet. And the Russians had told us, “Do not hit the railroad close to the refinery because we’re going to be there in about six weeks.” And so we were careful not to bomb there. And when the Russians got into Poland, the Russian railroad system uses a gauge that is wider than the standard worldwide other than Russia, I suppose. So they have to change one rail. If they’re taking territory, every where they’re using rail, they have to put down one rail to pull it in to fit their, or widen it, to fit their cars. We got white bread and beautiful jelly in Russia. And of course the Ukraine is the bread basket center of Russia. The next day we took off for Italy, and we bombed an airfield near the Ploesti oil fields, which was such a disastrous mission for the B-24’s out of North Africa, when they bombed each other going in there. Landed in Foggia in Italy, and Foggia is on the spur of the boot in Italy. The only thing of a funny nature happened there was they gave us a jeep, and we could go to the Bay of Manfraedonia swimming. And as we passed a farmer out there, we noticed he had a watermelon patch out there. So the navigator went on, and he says, “I’ll get us some watermelon.” And this was in August, you know, and we hadn’t seen any fruit in a long time. So he goes over, and with his hands out in the shape of a watermelon he says, “Watermelon, watermelon.” And this Italian farmer said in perfect English, “I understand. How many do you want?” (Laughing). We stayed there three or four days. There was a P-38 fighter came in while we were there, and he was trying to do a victory roll. And instead of rolling, he just rolled it right straight into the bivouac area of English soldiers in there. And he burned up a bunch of soldiers. And when we left, we came over close to the Anzio beachhead, where the Anzio beachhead was, and across – which was the northernmost island – across Corsica or Sardinia – and then came into France, just above the Spanish border and bombed an airfield near Toulouse in southern France. When we left, we were gone about a week. And when we left, they were just beginning, Patton was beginning his breakthrough. They seemed to route us over the beachhead for morale purposes so the ground fellas could see us flying over, I guess. But they were shooting at us a week before we were there. And then when we came back, Patton was beginning to make his sweep out of the beachhead – his breakout. And we started letting down over France, and came out over France, I think at 8 or 10,000 feet. And it was really strange to be flying that low, when a week before, if you had been flying that low, they would have been shooting at you there. One other thing happened on this Russian run, and I talked to some of the fellas here that were on that plane. When we flew the mission into Poland for the Russians, the Russians shot at us when we were coming back. We were near Kiev. And the pilot on that plane rang his bell three times to alert them that they might have to bail out. Two of them bailed out and landed near Kiev. And when the Russians found these two Americans down there, we had already left. They didn’t get back to the base before we returned to England. They treated them like kings. They said they’d never seen as much vodka in their lives. And when they got back to the base at Poltava, they were just like kings. And they had to fly them back to England, and the route back in those days was Teheran, Cairo, Casablanca and back into England. But when they got back to the base, they led a bad life (laughing). That about takes care of it, I guess.
MBW: That’s pretty good. Well, we are coming to near the end of our tape this afternoon. Is there anything else in particular you’d like to tell us about?
JM: I’m sure I’ll think of something tomorrow (chuckling), but I don’t think so.
MBW: Is there anything about your crew you’d like to mention?
JM: Well, I haven’t seen any of the crew, except the bombardier. Of course, since this is my first visit, we kept in contact for several years, and then we kind of just drifted apart. I think the pilot, Larry Gilbert, was at the meeting in Tucson last year. I’m sorry I didn’t get to see him there. I got his number and called his home, and I didn’t get a reply. We’ve lost contact.
MBW: How have you felt about being here this time, your first reunion?
JM: I have thoroughly enjoyed it, and my wife has had a ball. She’s just all over me for not being here earlier. And I’m not much of a joiner (laughing). I expect I’ll be back again.
MBW: You mentioned that your son had bought the brick for you. Is he here with you?
JM: No, but I hope I can get him to go to Orlando next year. Steve is 45 now and very interested.
MBW: We would love, Karen and I, would love to have him – all the children of the veterans, and grandchildren these days.
KS: I had one more question. You know at air shows you see the Thunderbirds and the Blue Angels flying those formations. How far apart, or how close were you when you flew in formation?
JM: Well, a lot of people look at a formation and they assume you’re all level, but you’re not, even in a three-ship element. The ship on the right is a few feet higher than the wing of the leader. And the ship on the left is a few feet lower, in case you override each other to keep from crashing into each other. The toughest position, to me, in the formation to fly, is the #4 spot in the lead group. You have a three-ship element. You have three ships behind and below it. And the man in that lead element, #4 position, flies that position looking through the roof of the B-17. And it’s extremely uncomfortable. You’re leaning back with your head up, your right hand on the throttle, your left on the wheel. And about 10 or 15 minutes is just about all you can fly in that position. And we were hit by fighters one time, and we were in that position. We only flew that position about three or four times, and thank goodness we got to be a lead ship. But when those fighters came in, of course you tighten your formation up. You don’t loosen. You tighten it as close as you can get it so that you have more guns to bear. I was so close to the #1 plane, the lead plane there, that we took his shelling casings on the leading edge of our wing. We were being hit by his shell casings.
MBW: I’d like to know if you continued to fly.
JM: No, as soon as I got out, I went back to college on the GI bill. When I got back from England, we could not be sent back into combat unless we signed a release. And they had so many coming back then, they really didn’t know what to do with us. And they sent me to Hobbs, New Mexico. And from there to San Antonio, Randolph Field. And I think the only reason they sent us to Randolph, they had pilots from every type of aircraft that was being flown at that time. And they ran us through a test in a sound chamber, checking hearing to see who had the most hearing loss. And I think the A-20 and the B-25 pilots – all that racket – they were sitting there between two engines. They had the most loss. I went back to Hobbs long enough to get an instrument card. We were flying ‘17’s there. And they didn’t know what to do with us. They had us out one day, all the officers that had come back – dentists, doctors, pilots, bombardiers. We were drilling in formation. These doctors and dentists didn’t know how to drill. And they’d call to the rear march, and one would crawl up my back, and one would hit me in the front. And I said, “I am not going to put up with it. I’d rather go to combat than this.” So I went down to Headquarters, and I asked this girl down there if she would write me a letter to the commanding officer of the base and request a return to combat. Well, I went up to Lincoln, Nebraska, and I was first pilot there. And got a crew, and went to Sioux City, Iowa. Finished combat crew training there. The week we finished combat crew training, the war in Europe ended. Well, they didn’t know what to do with us again. So they just let us fly for a while, a few days. Just do anything you want to. So we tried stunting and buzzing each other, seeing if we could drop a ’17 in on the letters at the end of the runway, crazy things like that. And finally they picked ten of us, and said that we could pick, they had to pick a first pilot from the rest of the crew. They picked ten of us and let us pick a crew to go to B-29 school. We picked a crew, went to Tucson, Davis Monthan, and finished combat crew training in B-29’s. And I was at Topeka, Kansas with a brand new B-29, and they were processing our clothes when the war with Japan ended. So I didn’t get that second tour.
MBW: What about in civilian life? Did you continue to fly?
JM: No, the last thing I flew was a B-29. We had 2,200 horsepower engines. We had 8,800 horsepower. And when I got back, it cost $7 an hour to rent a 60 horsepower Taylor Cub. Now I couldn’t afford $7 (laughing). And then I went to school, went back to college. And then got married as soon as I finished college. And then the children came along. I love flying. I wish I had been able to because I wanted to fly. I made model airplanes from the time I was a shaver out of balsa and paper and I loved it. I didn’t like the discipline in the military. But when we were in cadets, I said, “I’m going to subjugate all of my desires so that I can get through this training program.” And I did. I would like to have flown. But the commercial pilots, they were coming out there. There were so many pilots that had so many hours in C-54’s and ATC. They’d come out with 10,000 hours, you know, and with a college education. And we didn’t stand a chance going into the airlines with the hours that we had.
MBW: Well, you sure did the job over there, though, and we thank you for it. And thank you so much for putting all this on the record today.
JM: Well, thank you.
MBW: We really appreciate it.
JM: I’ll have to thank my wife, because she pushed me here (chuckle).
MBW: Whatever it took.